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  1. #1
    Voice of Wisdom Sandye's Avatar
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    Earlier this summer, I wrote about my son, police brutality, and my deepest fears for him. Today those fears were realized. I was having a great day ... school was terrific, received a package of clothing (size 8s!) that fit, and I was feeling very good. The phone rang "Your son wanted me to call you because he is at the car wash right down the street from his job and he is being arrested." I jumped in my car in time to see the police officers slam my son onto the sidewalk - face first. A crowd had already gathered and one of the car wash workers told me that the police pulled him over, yanked him out of the car, and that he had been slammed on the ground four or five times. I ran to the police car and asked the officers what they were doing to my son. One answered me in the most disrespectful tone I had heard in a long time and said "Lady, your son is going to jail today and if you say another word I will arrest you for obstruction of justice and you will go with him."

    I told him that he was just going to have to cuff me then, because someone was going to tell me what was going on with my son. I also told him that he did not start addressing me in a more respectful tone, that I would call my contacts at the police department and we would all going to jail together. Finally, I went nuts - crying, screaming, and warning them not to slam my son on the ground again. The rude one finally told me that my son was pulled over because he was blasting his "ghetto" music in violation of the noise ordinance. He said that my son's car would be impounded and he was going to jail. It was surreal ... as though I had seen this scene in my mind a million times.

    The people at the car wash who had seen everything were very kind while I was waiting. They washed my car, gave me a coke, and lots of Kleenex. After what seemed like an eternity, the officer emerged from the car - red faced and angry. He said, and I will never forget the look on his face when he said it "His kind always have outstanding warrants ... I just can't find any, so I guess we have to let him go." They gave him a ticket, impounded his car, calling it a "criminal tool" and gave us a court date. They were not going to allow him to remove his belongings from his car, but they finally did - after I went off again with the growing crowd backing me up.

    We removed his things and walked to my car. There were no words to say. I noticed that his cheek was bleeding, but did not say anything. At his apartment, he showed me the scrapes on his arms and chest and told me that his knee was sore. All I could do was tell him how sorry I was. I held him like he was a baby again.

    After he took his shower, I came home, made some calls and demanded an investigation. I wish I could post this in the main forum, because I think it is important - but I am not in the mood to be attacked right now.
    All you can do is the best you can do ... but the best you can do is enough.

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  3. #2
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    Sandye~ Girl.. I am so sorry that you went through this. I know that nothing I say will make you feel any better right now. Just know that I am here for you and my cell phone is always on. I'm just in shock, and I'm angry, and upset ... I just don't know what to say . Once again.. I'm here for you...
    Sending love and prayers your way.
    SW 260 CW 178
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  4. #3
    Wonder Phenster Nitra's Avatar
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    Oh girl Im so sorry. I see more and more of this. What is the deal?? I hear these stories and it makes me sick. Im here for you ok..

  5. #4
    Platinum Phenster Jipi's Avatar
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    Dear Sandye,

    A warm hug to you My thoughts and heart are with you and your son.

    Kindest regards
    Jipi


  6. #5
    Diamond Phenster Keew's Avatar
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    Sandye,
    You and your son are in my thoughts as well.

    These are the people who are here to serve and protect us. It is a shame that they are also the ones who abuse and degrade us.

    (((((HUGS)))))
    *********************************
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    SW 387 CW 230 GW 175 LOW CARB FOR LIFE!!

  7. #6
    Gold Phenster triplet's Avatar
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    Sandye,

    I really don't know what to say.....so all I will say is I love you.

    Trip

  8. #7
    Gold Phenster ohiosearcher's Avatar
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    Angry

    Call me if you need anything. I am going to make a few calls to a few friends down there in the legal profession. I will give you any info I get.
    Jeff

    Started Phen - 2/4/02
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    STGW - 170 DONE (a few times)
    LTGW - 165 WHENEVER (been there once)


  9. #8
    Platinum Phenster
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    i wish i could say something to make this all go away but i don't know the words. i'm sitting here not knowing whether to cry or be angry, okay i'm doing both. all i can say is i hope the stupid, ignornant,S.O.B. who did that pays!!!!!!

    please know that i am thinking of your son and you.

  10. #9
    Diamond Phenster Clara's Avatar
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    Angry

    Sandye, I'm glad you handled it the way you did. You did the right thing and now you need to get all your contacts to look into it. I bet you anything this officer has done this before. If he has or hasn't you need to report it. This whole thing makes me sick.

    Sandye, give your son a big hug for me and remember we're here for you. A big "HUG" for you too.

    [ September 25, 2002, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: Clara ]
    Are we there yet ???????????

  11. #10
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    Dear Sandye,

    I'm so sorry to hear of the awful thing you and your son went through. You are both in my thoughts today. Please take care of each other. And please keep us updated on the situation as it develops!

    Love,
    Sarah

  12. #11
    Silver Phenster HollyAsWell's Avatar
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    Hey Sandye,

    I can not even begin to express how deeply this disturbs me. I am an American, and I was born here. This country's history is based on crimes of humanity against other people. America hasn't changed so much over the years. The laws have changed, to varying degrees, but the attitudes of people, in large part, have not. It's not just the police, it's our sick society. When I was 13 I moved out of this country and lived elsewhere for 17 years. About 8 years ago I moved back and I was deeply disturbed at how America holds tight to its prejudices and continues to oppress. In my view, it simply is America's greatest flaw, it is the reason we will ultimately fail at being the 'greatest country in the world'.

    I do not worry when I get in a car if someone is going to pull me over for playing my music too loud. I do not worry that the police will stop me late at night and ask me if the car I am driving is mine. I do not have to worry about these things because I am white. And THAT is the simple fact of the matter. It's not because I don't break the law from time to time (I've tossed little garbage out of my car window when stopped in traffic with a policeman behind me!) it is because I am white, and there is no other reason. Until this society chooses to lose its prejudices and open up opportunities for EVERYONE here the oppression will continue. If there isn't equal opportunity, there will never be equality. What percentage of the police force is black or any other color that is not white? For that matter, what percentage of government is? A very small percentage, and that's not a coincidence - it is a contrived situation and America's biggest problem.

    I live in a part of this country where the confederate flag is flown from truck beds, from houses, and until recently from the state capital. A flag that's only meaning is "white supremecy" is proudly shown everywhere. It makes me sick. It makes me angry. But most of all it makes me feel deep pity for those with such hate in their hearts and lives. It's 2002, we haven't come very far.

    My child is not white. I feel the sting of racism everyday that is aimed at him. He is not even 3 but I see parents tell their children to avoid him and I hear little children asking him, "what are you?" as if he were a 'thing' instead of a human being. I would kill to protect him from ever having to feel the hate and fear that is projected at him. Right now he does not see it, he is oblivious to it, but I do see it, and my heart breaks. I'm hoping that one day the attitudes of people in this country will change, I do what I can to try to educate people and I will make sure my son has a deep sense of self respect for his heritage and who he is. I know you've done this too - it's frustrating knowing you can't do more and you can't protect them from the larger society. My heart is with you......maybe one day it will change. You have to keep that faith.
    A child's face can say so much.......especially the mouth part of the face.

  13. #12
    Bronze Phenster Jana-ThinkingThin's Avatar
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    I am so sorry to hear what has happened to your son. My heart goes out to the both of you.
    My family is white, we have been through the same thing in the early 1990's We were on our way home from the store. My husband, myself and our children were in the car. The police stopped us due to my son kept getting out of the car seat.We had just pulled over to fix his seat. The police man started telling my husband to give him 300.00 cash and he would let us go. My husband let him know we had no cash, The police man grabbed my husband and pushed him to the ground and kept hitting and kicking him. He went on about the money for a while. Then he got a call (Thank God) and left us standing there in total confusion. I dont think he must have even called in that he had stoped us, due to why would he have gotten a call? I know this is not as bad as what it must be like for a young teen. Please tell him, our prayers are with him and even though it may seem like it at times all white people are not that way....God Bless and I will keep you in my Prayers...Jana

  14. #13
    Voice of Wisdom Sandye's Avatar
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    Reading your responses blew me away. I never expected such sincere concern, support, and compassion. Thank you. You will never know how much that means to me.

    An investigation is underway. The owner of the car wash called everyone he knew downtown, but the BIG thing is, one of the police officers on the scene filed an incident report concerning the matter.

    My son is sore from head to toe. He is going to have to receive therapy for his knee - it is swollen, bruised and he is having trouble walking on it. I told him about this post and he appreciates your concern.

    I will keep you informed of his legal and medical progress. Thanks so much for caring.
    All you can do is the best you can do ... but the best you can do is enough.

  15. #14
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    you have a pm
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  16. #15
    Voice of Wisdom Sandye's Avatar
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    I want to thank you again for your understanding and support. In response to private message and email correspondence:

    I have spoken with my son concerning his music. He is a 24 year old adult. I am not violent, I had my only fist fight in 1960. I do not have a blatant disregard for the law. I am not a welfare recipient. My son is not illegitimate. I am not a racist. I do not look for others to blame for my problems. I do not live in the projects - I own my own home - my son is not a product of the ghetto. He drives a Pontiac SSE, not a hooptie. I am not a troublemaker. I am not a nigger. I am not a ****. I do not have a problem with authority. My son does not have a criminal record. Neither my son or I are drug users (well, except phen). I am not looking for sympathy. And finally, I don't care what you think - racism is still alive, well and living in America and if you don't know that - you are living in a fantasy world. Young white men blast music every day as well - it is not a color thang - it is a youth culture thang.

    I think that about covers it. For those of you who want me to leave the forum because I am not the type of person with whom you wish to associate - you are getting your wish. Don't send any more PMs or emails - I am through with it.
    All you can do is the best you can do ... but the best you can do is enough.

  17. #16
    Wonder Phenster MiSsJoLi's Avatar
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    Angry

    I hope you all come forward...get it all out...SAY IT OUTLOUD if you feel that strongly!!!!
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  18. #17
    Wonder Phenster Nitra's Avatar
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    Missy they wont do it. They are cowards. They will say such things privately but would never speak them openly.

  19. #18
    Wonder Phenster MiSsJoLi's Avatar
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    Angry


    Just remember Joline (yes, I am talking to myself) "people are the hardest to love when they need love the most"
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  20. #19
    Bronze Phenster LakeGirl's Avatar
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    Sandye

    I am sorry for any negitive replys you've gotten through emails or PM's.
    I can not believe how one can sit and say that you're wrong and that racism is not still full force.
    In my state and in one particular county next to mine but still I drive through that one weekly I can witness a car/truck pulled over for the fact the people inside are not white. I know the cops are cracking down on the meth labs but to assume that every car that has more then one non white person inside is enough to warrent the car to be pulled over and searched.

    I heared in the past week how 9-11 has brought us all together to stand as one....That I had to really laugh out loud.

    I will keep you close to my heart with the prayer of man realizing his mistake.

    Your son was raised by a very stong woman..you taught him well by experience.

    Some things have to be caught not taught...you know this.

    Please do not let stupidity rule you....they will catch it....one day at a time.

  21. #20
    Silver Phenster HollyAsWell's Avatar
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    There's someone in this forum that doesn't think racism exists in this country?!!!

    Wow, I am sorry that you got those messages Sandye. If anyone wants to take ME on - go for it!! You may do yourself a favor in doing so, it's obvious you need some education!
    A child's face can say so much.......especially the mouth part of the face.

  22. #21
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    To those of you who thought I was afraid to post, I am not. I never called Sandye any of those things she posted in her response to PM and email. I never insinuated that she was on welfare, a drug user, lived in the projects ect.. What I did explain to her was when she said she didn't want to be attacked that she should stop being a victim. I had not attacked her the first time, we had a difference of opinion that was all. As I had said in the post last time, if there is something wrong in America it is our duty to fix it peacefully. It makes me so angry when any group of people think that their group is so misunderstood and so persecuted, when in reality by searching so hard for it and expecting it, you will find it. You guys can sit here and b itch about America and how terrible we are to our "citizens of color" but I have no desire to be around it.
    As a footnote, you should all listen to or read the song/poem by John Wayne about the hyphenated American, America is a great place but the division caused by being German-American, Asian-American or African-American will only weaken our country, we are ALL Americans, and we should be proud of that. Remember our Motto is 'out of many one' not 'out of many, many sub groups'

    [ September 30, 2002, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: John ]

  23. #22
    Voice of Wisdom Sandye's Avatar
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    I never mentioned names. Never stated or implied that my response was to one PM or email. I addressed issues raised by more than one person. Beth, you are not the only person who felt compelled to contact me privately. There is no need to be defensive as if my response was directed at you personally. It wasn't.
    All you can do is the best you can do ... but the best you can do is enough.

  24. #23
    Silver Phenster HollyAsWell's Avatar
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    As far as I know, listening to your music in your car isn't grounds for being thrown down on the ground by anyone, never mind the police. Maybe you'd care to explain to me how it is that that is "okay" by your standards.

    and as for
    You guys can sit here and b itch about America and how terrible we are to our "citizens of color"
    Thank you Vallejo, you have just proven what Sandye suspected.

    If you had any grasp of the history of this country you would know it was founded on the principal of a citizen's right to challenge the public policies and institutions created by the government as well as the government itself. It's not just a right Vallejo, it's an OBLIGATION. When you see an injustice in a society, you VOCALIZE your discontent in the hopes that it CEASES. You can only affect change by noticing problems and taking action. Remaining ignorant is not heroic.

    You also might want to start with a little basic US history. This country WAS built on the backs of slaves. That's just a fact. You don't have to recognize it if you don't want to - but it still remains a fact. There have been racial disparities in this country from its beginning and to deny they exist today is just, well it is foolish. I suggest you read something other than a People magazine once in awhile. Start with some publications from international human rights organizations like Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch. READ their reports on the US and how minorities are treated in this country and the statistical EVIDENCE related to crimes of racism PARTICULARLY amongst the police. The alternative is to remain ignorant - and well, you don't wear it well.
    A child's face can say so much.......especially the mouth part of the face.

  25. #24
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    I am so sorry to hear about what happened to your son and you. What a mess. When the police look at people as a group and not individuals it burns me up. Your son is a person. He's young, black and fits a profile. Again, what a mess.

    We are a white family in Texas. In the little town of Keller, we lived in while our kids were in high school, the police make it their policy to harass the male teens. My youngest son worked at Kroger. Many nights they followed him out of town on his way home. Several times they stopped him for no reason. He is good kid, no drugs, polite and hard working. It burns me up they pick on teens boys just for being teens. In Keller they don't have many kids of color so they pick on "all" teens.

    My heart goes out to you and my prayers also.

    [ September 28, 2002, 12:23 AM: Message edited by: Dianne ]

  26. #25
    Silver Phenster HollyAsWell's Avatar
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    It makes me so angry when any group of people think that their group is so misunderstood and so persecuted
    Perhaps you should redirect your anger into something productive - like education. Why don't you try to find out just WHY some people in this country feel they are persecuted?

    Do you not have the slightest knowledge about the country that you live in when it comes to its racial history or present day happenings? Maybe if you did you would have some insight into what you think is just "b itching". Again, please educate yourself, if you want to preach "we're all Americans because John Wayne said so", please start with the KKK, Aryan Nation and the skin head groups here in the US. Do you know how many of them exist here? Over 500 KNOWN groups concentrated throughout the United States. I'm sure they'd be thrilled to hear from you. Maybe you can hold seminars about how you believe they should set aside their viewpoints and be happy living next to their black, yellow, brown and red neighbors. Now THAT would be productive.

    After that, you might want to start sensitivity training with predominantly white police forces (that would be the majority of them Vallejo). You could teach them that "we're all just Americans" so there's no real reason to rape, kill or beat people of different colors that you consider suspects in supposed crimes. I'm sure your message would go over very well.
    A child's face can say so much.......especially the mouth part of the face.

  27. #26
    nal
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    Diamond Phenster nal's Avatar
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    Sandye.........love to you and your son. Don't know what else to say at the moment....I'm a little stunned.
    Are We Cruisin' Yet?

  28. #27
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    You know...I usually stay out of fights around here...

    Sandye...I'm so sorry about your son. I don't have a lot of experience with people who aren't white or mexican...but I whole heartedly believe in the American concept Beth spoke of. I'm not saying it exists...but it is my ideal. We are all hyphenated Americans when it comes right down to it. I'm German-American (well, heinze 57 really...)...my husband is English-American. There is only one race...the HUMAN RACE...I wish everyone could see that, but they don't.

    The only other thing I wish to say is this...I've said it before...

    If you can't say something encouraging, helpful or nice...keep your fingers off the keyboard. I realize that sometimes people say things and it can be misunderstood...but I see so much down right ugliness...its just unnecessary and only serves to hurt. I do my best to not be a part of it...but some of us seem to go looking for it...and if we can't find it...we create it.

    It breaks my heart and piss es me off that a post where someone was reaching out has turned into something ugly and hurtful.

    I'm sorry Sandye...I really am. Please keep us updated on your son. Tell him...that if it happened to my son...well, I just don't know what I'd do...it makes me cry to think about it. I'm so so sorry...things like this shouldn't happen.

  29. #28
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    sandye,

    i think you help to diffuse the situation, but it is unexcusable that there was a situation to diffuse

    tell me you took pictures. (of your son's injuries) for the investigation.

    i'm sorry sandye

  30. #29
    Diamond Phenster Moonwatcher's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Too bad some adults don't view the world from a five year olds point of view.

    They don't see race...or religion...or fat or skinny.

    They just want to know if the kid down the street can come out and play.

    Children do not come out of the womb racist.
    They are taught by adults.
    Maybe it's time the adults shut up and start learning from the five year olds that just want to play together.

    Sandye,
    Please try to remember you have many friends here and people that really DO care.

    Blessings to you and your son,
    Moony

  31. #30
    Diamond Phenster Pattib's Avatar
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    Sandye what can i say. my gosh i am in shock. i hope u know u have my thoughts and prayers. i can not believe this i really cant, and worse, i know its going on out there, i am in arkansas, its here some too, but i havent heard to this extent. i am so so sorry. know i am thinking of ya and your son. i dont know what u are going thru with the racist, part, but my 19 yr old got a ticket for runnin 2 red lites, the same as a yr and half ago they said he did. he did it back then, totally, and got community service. and now, he stops very so very carefully there. his dad is going to go with him to see the chief of police in the city cuz he has heard that this is common practice in that small city. ? what can my son do. u know? he cant fight it very well, he had the ticket already there from previous. his word against the cops.
    u and your son have witnesses. find them. gosh, sandye, this is so wrong.
    hugs friend. ~ patti

  32. #31
    Silver Phenster HollyAsWell's Avatar
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    whole heartedly believe in the American concept Beth spoke of. I'm not saying it exists...
    Citizens of the US are Americans in nationality, and like you said, I believe everyone is part of the HUMAN race. I do not agree that a person's citizenship dictates their ethnicity. My son is a Mayan even if he is an American citizen, he should be proud of that heritage, being American doesn't wipe out his ethnicity and replace it with a nationality. I know what you're getting at though and that is the concept that we are all equal. We are.

    There are a lot of people who would disagree with that though, and that's the problem. And it's a REAL problem, not a fiction. In my opinion, if people refuse to recognize that with facts and figures at their fingertips (as well as good old common sense observation) they feed into the problem as a result of their ignoring it.

    It's a warm thought to think that we are all equal in this society but that is just not the case and it never has been. It's a goal to strive for - hence my own angst about it not being a reality after several hundred years - but it is NOT a goal that has been achieved.
    A child's face can say so much.......especially the mouth part of the face.

  33. #32
    Administrator John's Avatar
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    Sandye,VallejoBeth, and all of you who have posted in this topic ...

    I propose that we close this topic. I understand all the emotion behind what happened but we are moving slowly away from Phentermine.com forum's initial purpose.

    Sandye: we thank you for bringing your story to the forum and are really sorry for what happened. We hope the best for your son and wish him to be back to a normal situation soon.
    You have seen that you had a lot of friends here who supported you. This is important.

    I was just thinking of what I would do in such a situation. Well there are many options but this would be my favorite way to act:
    (this is just my opinion...)

    You may suppose that what this policeman did, is very likely to happen again. What are his reasons to do so? no idea. But that's his life history and we can't change the past. But we may do something for the future. If I were your son, I would try to meet this guy and talk to him... in a nice way, positively. Buy him a beer and make him understand that he really overreacted. You can believe me that this policeman will be surprised to listen to wisdom. Words of wisdom are the most powerful weapon. If he understands that what he did was wrong, he will change his mind and think it twice in the future. Don't expect him to apologize. Expect him to change.It will then be a great victory for you and your son. Positively changing the future is very rewarding and can wipe away wounds of any kind.

    I've lived in many countries and in various cultures and I don't think racism is only based on the colour of your skin. It is more complicated than that. For instance you have discrimination based on religion, language, social classes, physical appearance (like obesity), etc... Racism is present in all countries including the USA. However, in many cases, racism can be different. For instance if you are back, rich and are graduated from Harward, you won't live race discrimination as if you are poor, black and coming out of jail. The lack of respect from the other side is also based on attitude. If you come back to this policeman and talk to him quietly he will very likely change the opinon he has about you. I do believe that a quiet (but firm) attitude in a moment of crisis is better than tears and screams.In particular with the police because they have the law with them (and sometimes more). Unless you have a lot of money to pay a good lawyer, it is very difficult to fight the legitimacy of law.
    I was always impressed by Martin Luther King. His attitude and presence have done more for America than any law. He has help changed many people's minds. Look at what happened in South Africa. Mandela's attitude has defeated a white and powerful power. How? By changing minds. Amazing no?

    Tolerance is what gives you power and serenity. Accepting and recognizing differences is important. VallejoBeth's opinion is different to yours but don't be surprised. Not everyone has to agree with you. You have seen that many people on the forums have supported your point of view but someone didn't fully agree with your appraisal of what happened (although she did understood your position). However, it is important to understand VallejoBeth's point. You may not agree with her, but it is important to accept differences, particularly when they are explained, which was the case.


    VallejoBeth: I read your private message and understand your point about race discrimination but also about family values and what should people do, to live together as Americans. I didn't say I agreed with you: I just understand your point. This is your opinion and I respect it as well as I respect Sandye's.

    Sandye: if you have received other PMs where you feel other members of this forum have insulted you or used racist words, please feel free to forward them to me and I will make sure this doesn't happen again.

    Finally, here are my favorite words of wisdoms:

    "I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become reality. I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word" Martin Luther King

    Thank you,

    John


    2013 will be a GREAT year!!!!

    Started Phen Caps on January 1st 2013

    http://www.phen.com

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