[debalexis]

This has been posted at another forum that I don't get to as often as this one but felt compelled to cut and copy it for all of you to read.
This has got me really thinking and feel that there may be a whole lot of truth behind this. I am in no way trying to promote any misleading information or to lesson the pain that this horror has been on each and everyone of us in one way or another. I do believe that we are to be held accountable for our actions according to the law of the land.
Deb

Thoughts from an American-Arab
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I've read several posts asking and wondering "why". So, I felt very compelled to write this post, to hopefully shed some light on the facts that MAY have led to this horrendous tragedy. Please bear with me, as this is a VERY LONG post. I respectfully post this for all to read, and understand that we all have the right to our opinions. Perhaps this bit of info will she some light.

I came to the conclusion that the American people, who are horrified by the attack and are looking for retribution, have no clue about the "root" of the problem. I felt compelled to also tell you the other side of the story. Some of which is available to each and any one of us, but some only available to the people who live in the mid-East. The Americans are angry, rightfully so, but are not knowledgeable about why. I hope you find the time and courage to educate the people around you of the facts I am about to tell you. These are facts indeed, yet the media and our government will not highlight this enough to get our attention. If the people would only watch the news, really watch the news and link back to history, they would see so clearly where the problem lies. Maybe they have their attn now? Maybe that was partially "why"?

I will try to start as far back as I can, and hopefully you will read this with an open mind, and by all means, feel free to research all that I am saying. It's there, in history, in print...no secret at all.

Over 15 years ago, when Russia was trying to invade Afghanistan, the USA trained many Arab soldiers to go to Afghanistan and fight. We trained them and we armed them. Now, it looked as if we were being compassionate, when in reality we were watching out for the largest interest in the world....OIL! If Russia made it through Afghanistan, and then through other Arab countries, they would be in control of the oil, which directly controls the economy of the world. So, at that time, the Arabs were our "friends".

Now I move to Desert Storm. We set Saddam Hussein up, quite beautifully in fact. In a television interview between him and a woman (I can't remember her title), he stated that Kuwait was Iraq's 13th goverent (like a State). Which in fact it was not, but it was his way of saying he could have it if he wanted it. She responded, "yes, it is". Silently saying that we would do nothing, as we recognize that this is yours. THIS IS ON TAPE! Additionally, Russia's gov't had just crumbled, and the USA and Russia were becoming allies (they had no choice basically because we were bailing them out of ruin-yet this was still not made public.). However, at the same time, Russia is telling Suddam that the USA will do nothing if he doesn't leave Kuwait (after the invasion, we gave him a deadline of Jan 16th I believe, not certain about the date), and if the USA does do something, then Russia will be at his side. He believed this like an idiot, because history proved USA and Russia were not allies. There was no way in hell the USA was going to let Suddam get closer to the control of the oil, so we kicked his butt. And in the process, we gave everyone in the world reason to believe that USA presence, through military bases, was needed all over the middle east for "peace purposes". We accomplished what we set out to from the beginning, and that was to "watch over" the oil.

Meanwhile, we have supported Israel for years through free weapons, money, privileges in the USA (tax free bonds which, by the way, no other country in the world has that privilege here, etc). In turn, they buy our political support. They took over Palestine and have been killing these people for many, many years. In retaliation, the Palestinians send suicide bombers. So the Israeli gov't kills more (with missiles, machine guns, etc.) and then another suicide bomber goes out and takes out 10 - 30 people. Mind you, these suicide bombers are directed by various militant groups, not the gov't. Either way, the Palestinians refuse to give up because they have nothing to lose. These people are being killed by the hundreds, women, children, and men. These people are suffering on a daily basis by the hands of the Israeli gov't. Even we watched on TV, the man crouching behind a metal barrel of sorts, with his young son in his arms. This man was a civilian. He was unarmed. AND, he was begging the Israeli soldiers not to shoot, that he had his son with him. The soldiers decided to shoot his son, right there, while the man held him in his arms. He watched his son die, and so did the rest of the world.

We Americans saw this. What did we do? NOTHING. What did our gov't do? NOTHING. Instead, we continued to support Israel. There is a law, that states that US arms shall NOT be used to oppress, but only defend. And it is so painfully obvious that our weapons are not being used for such purposes. And what do we do? NOTHING.

Americans were horrified by the Palestinians who were dancing in the streets, and celebrating this terror that reined upon us on Tuesday. Do you know why??? Not because they are happy that people are dead. No. But that the very people who are inadvertently helping their "King of Terror" is now having a taste of what that have been enduring for so many years. And not only have they endured death, but severe poverty. This by the hands of an American gov't these people once thought were their friends.

When the Israeli gov't finds out who the suicide bomber is, they go kill the father, sometimes brothers, and take the mother and sisters and throw her in the streets. They destroy the woman's home, a woman with 4 or more babies sometimes. They uproot their trees (olives, figs, etc), that these people need to make a living. They are punishing the entire family because of one desperate soul. And still, we do nothing. I don't believe in this country we condemn the entire family because one member commits a crime? Is Tim McVey's family still alive? Yep.

What happen Tuesday was no doubt a tragedy. A monstrosity committed against innocent men, women, and children. And we are looking to retaliate. I fear this: If we retaliate, will this cure the problem of terrorism in our country? No, not if we look at the happenings in Israel. They continue to come back. And they will. They are willing to die for their country. For their families. For their God. Lets us not do anything rash, but use our minds to get to the root of the problem. And make damn sure that what were do is going to stop terrorism, not ignite it.

For the record, these terrorists are NOT Palestinians. They are of many Arab descents. Lebanese, Syrian, Saudi, Afghanistan, Sudanese, etc. This is a large group of lone men who want to do something about the problem in the middle east, and the injustices that are occurring everyday to the Palestinian people. Think about it, what a huge problem it is when men from other countries will join you to fight for your life. And these men are not trying to "get" Americans per se, they just want the USA to stop helping Israel kill their Arab neighbors. I understand their cause, although I don't agree with how they carry it out.

When will the USA stand up to Israel and say "NO MORE!". When will we stop giving and giving and giving to this country? Why is it that we do not come to the Palestinians rescue, when they have never harmed us? WHY? Because there is no economic advantage to do so. And if there was, you better believe that the gov't would find reason to get the American people behind them, and they'd jump right in.

So, as much as it's heart warming to see our fellow Americans drop all walls and allow compassion to shine through, it's heartbreaking to know that if this happened elsewhere, to a country we don't give a darn about, we wouldn't blink an eye. So how deep is this compassion anyway? OR is it just a question of taking the time to watch the news and read the paper. Perhaps this will wake us all up to the many thousands that are dying by our weapons that we continue to give, along with our political support. Let us force our gov't to be compassionate...for those who are defenseless in this world. And then, maybe then, we might see terrorism come to a halt.

I am personally devestated by what has happened to us, and pray that this will never, ever happen again. I also pray that this will no longer be tolerated anywhere in the world.

[Jenerizer]

All of that could or could not be true, I don't know........but it doesn't justify what was done here in America.

[frankles]

I was listening on to a talk radio show today and they had a man on saying the palestinians are p*ssed w/usa because we give money to Israel (5 billion per year). The Israeli's then slaughter the palestinians w/usa money. This is not my saying, only what I heard on the radio. I must say though I did not know this, if at all it is true.

[NEcountrygirl]

This post should be turned over to the FBI! Geeze, Our government doesn't even know all the facts yet, so how is it that the author of this post know so much? And to top it off, if he/she thinks that our govenment is so much to blame...then why the H*E*L*L do they live in our great country? We must have something this person wants, or they'd go back home. But no, they live in our free and democratic country and complain. GO HOME!

[fiddlestix]

OK. I know that threads like this are our way to make sense of this utter senselessness, but I cannot fathom how a tirade from an "American-Arab" who is clearly anti-Isreali is going to be helpful to us.

Personally, I don't really care what motivated those terrorists. What they did was so disgusting that I have no respect for their beliefs, their opinions. They forfeited their right to my unbiased attention the day they hijacked those planes filled with passengers of all races & colors & slammed them into buildings full of people of all races & colors.

We are all hurting. Our world will never be the same.

[samia]

Just want to say that eveyone is shocked all over the world- UK especially- as to what happened on Tuesday.We all observed the 3 minutes of silence in rememberance on Friday- in Mosques, Synagoges, Churches,Hindu and Sique Temples.
Debate is raging in UK as to the whys and what if senarios and we have constant coverage from USA satelite stations.
I just want to relay information back that what was stated earlier in the posting- on why a proportion of the world population are not happy with US policy in middle east and past actions of US government- is actually true.There is no excuse in the world to kill innocent people in any country for any reason be it oil, money, vengence or politics(& pretending that it is for a religous reason). The antics of the Israeli government are well known and have contributed to the hatered displayed by the Palestinans which has manifested itself in hatred of all things western.
In the UK the IRA rage a terrible bombing campaign every so often & we have become familiar to this.The horrific events on Tuesday was something new for the USA- AND MAY IT BE THE LAST.
Maybe after Tuesday politicans in the US will think about the long term consequences before providing economic aid or arms to various rebel groups around the world and remember that the US cannot live in isolation from the rest of Europe let alone the rest of the world.
What I am trying to say is that the the information posted earlier is well known in the UK and Europe- and people have protested against it and the USA in the past but i don't know whether US citizens were aware of these feelings.
It is so important to know who actually caused the mass murder of innocents on Tuesday rather than act on a wave of hysteria and bomb countries left, right and centre ,which would just continue the underground terrosist movements against the West.
I don't know whether the general public know a lot about the situation in Afghanistan.When the Russian invaded in 1979 millions of Afghans fought against them- not just peasants but Doctors, teachers, laywers etc.. Millions were killed. Men took their families to camps in Pakistan for safety and then returned to fight against the Russians.This group had many factions, and in a nutshell the Taliban which were the Religous fundamentalists survived and took power when the Russians were finally driven out. The Northern Alliance, the major opposition to Taliban have just lost their leader Shah Massod- a Post graduate from Universities in the US and France and the true face of what the Afghan population want which is a moderate country.The Taliban have an extreme view of the world and the religion they puport to practise(Islam is a religion of peace and forgiveness- these fanatics are not muslims and God will punish them on the day of judgemnet) they were however given arms both by Uk, Europe and US to fight against the Russians.
The general public is however suffering, 25% of the population are starving, there have been no rains in the major growing regions for nearly six years- this
information was published by the UN a few months ago.
Pakistan has been supplying aid (food&water)to the refugees in the camps near to its border. My cousin a surgeon in the UK joined an international medical team to go and help the women and children dying in these camps.Pakistan has since 1979 received over 5 million refugees from Afghanistan has not received any support to take care of the people from any country in the WEst or EaST- NOT EVEN sAUDI ARABIA. (People feel that the Saudis could have imprisioned Bin Laden for life instead of expelling him-to do damage to the world, they didn't want any problems in their own back yard.Many many people also feel that Saudis can intervene and sort the middle east out- they have power and wealth theyc an preesurise the Israelis to stop invading and bombing Palestinans- but wont as they are puppets to the US and scared of losing US investment- though Saudi controls a large proportion of the worlds oil supply.)

To hear that the US wants to bomb these poor Afghan civilians already at deaths door and scared of the Taliban, seems obscene- there must be another away to remove Osma BIN Laden- if he is responsible in another way.If he has caused the deaths and is denying it then he is a coward and will burn in hell.
Anyway , this post is getting too long- there is so much more info that has to be realized and its important for people to know the wider picture in the US.I would hate to think that quick actions were taken, more innocents were killed in the East and the cycle continued with more innocents killed whilist trying to go about their normal life.A life is a life, be it of a US citizen or Afghan- it has the same value.My second cousins were born and brought up in Washington- one is now in the US Navythe other in the Airforce. We all live in a global culture and have families scattered all round the world. My best friends cousin-of Indian origin, works for a German bank and was in the second tower-thank God he escaped but there was terror in trying to locate him.
World peace may be difficult to achieve but in the 21C we all need to make an attempt.
I consider myself a citizen of the world- we all share and feel grief faster now due to satelite technology.

[Jenerizer]

Very well explained Samia.......thanks for sharing. I think the U.S. is being as patient as possible & trying to find exactly who is behind all of this rather than just immediately reacting & taking military action against the wrong people/organization. It seems all evidence is pointing to bin Laden even though he is repeatedly denying any involvement. I don't think anyone in the U.S. wants to see anymore innocent people die--whether they are Americans or any other nationality.

This morning I heard that Pakistan has made a pact with America to surrender bin Laden to us..........that would be amazing if it were to happen, but just the fact that they are willing to try to do this reassures that it's not just the U.S. that thinks he & his organization are guilty. If Afghanistan is going to harbor him, they know the penalties. Unlike the coward terrorists, we are trying to resolve this as humanely as possible & saying exactly what our intentions are.

What I don't understand is if Israel is the main problem here, why aren't they directing all their hatred & anger at Israel? It's not just America that these terrorists strike, they leave their mark everywhere. Why?

I don't know if the tv stations around the world are capturing what is really going on here in America. This hasn't torn us apart at all. We are stronger than ever, more united than ever & more supportive of each other more than ever. It's amazing how something so awful can bring out so much good in our country. I suppose that happens because as we all know, good outweighs evil and there is far more good in this world than bad. It's unfortunate that we have to be reminded in ways like this though.

Jen

[samia]

Jen,
Yes it is amazing that there is such solidarity, brothership in the USA right now and the rest of the world touched by it. We receive CNN, MSNBC in addition to BBC 24, SKY news, ITN,and French,Asian and EURONEWS on our satelite receivers- some we can subsrcibe to others free.
We have all been watching US stations and Uk news and they all show the same story- bravery of the fire fighters, police and heartbreaking interviews of the relatives of the murdered and last mobile phone messages of those killed.Some Uk stations have censored the more harrowing pictures.We are also being given live reports from Pakistan,Kabul and Middle East.Pakistan has always been a friend of the West and President Mushraef has promised that he will help in any way what so ever- even though he is an unelected leader and the country is governed by the army, the general public respect the army more so than civilan politicans of the past and present.The military overthrow that occured a few years was bloodless and wanted by the people who have enjoyed more years of peace under military rule than under democratically elected leaders who have all turned out to be corrupt and lined their own pockets at the expense of the poor.
Unfortunately no one recognized the military government when it came to power and the US and some European countries threatened to withdraw all aid and close down embassies unless elections were held. This is fair enough as there is no greater fear than that of the unknown.President Musharef's wife is very modern, westernized and his mother very forthright and a strong women- he is a modern man and not an Islamic fundementalist. However there are a small bunch of people that want to bring a Taliban type of government to Pakistan, these are lead by fanatics similar to the Taliban- this is the biggest fear that people in Pakistan- my extended family live overthere- have that secular violence and fanatics will break out so we need Mushraef to be strong he has to maintain harmony in the country and help the West which is what he is doing. In return it would be great if later people helped Pakistan to solve the Kashmir problem with India without violence or that Pakistan received overseas investment in terms of companies opening up offices etc..like they have in India.
Ethnically Pakistan- formed from India over 52 years ago-is diverse(more than five different languages),alot of people are similar in language and culture to Afghans or indeed are Afghani and want peace. My fathers mother was from Kabul she was King Amanullahs second cousin, the entire royal family were hung-by the British and their agents- in the 1920s and she escaped to India- Pakistan was a part of India at this time and India was ruled by the British- with the Kings personal Army Captain/bodyguard who was originally from Dehli in India, who she later married- my grandfather.
The reason for this personal story is that my dad always wanted to go after he retired and seek out any remaining relations he might have had there. He is so sad-since the 1980s -that he will never be able to do this in his lifetime.
Anyway, its a global story people suffering and dying and so terrible than even now there are people on this planet that think to kill and cause suffering is the only way others will take notice of their cause.The world must change or the dark ages will return.
Yes, why don't terrosists just kill politicans instead of innocent people- why do they not stick to killing Israeli politicans(i hasten to add i don't approve of any type of killing)instead of innocents- i think they know that WTC would be major headline news the world over.It is also ironic that the only Israeli Prime Minister that was killed-in 1995- was by a Jewish fanatic. Also Ironic is that Jewish and Muslims races are both decended from the prophet Abraham and have far more in common with each other than Christians - who are also people of the book.
I just don't get it.It isn't religion but politics, greed and blood revenge.I wonder what God thinks of all of this??!

PS sorry my spelling is so bad- i use to suffer from Dylexsia.
Regards

Sam

[Sammi Rose]

Deb- I'd like to thank you for having the courage for posting this. Nothing can ever possibly excuse the attack on America. Every loss of human life and dignity diminishes every human being.
One of my very best friends is from Tel Aviv. Born and raised there, she came to America about 15 years ago. Her parents still live there and it has been very difficult for her to be so far away (hopping a quick plane to Israel is nonexistent) and she suffers greatly from the distance and from all of the unrest in the region. She has explained to me at great length the troubles between the Palestinians and the Israelis. What is true is that Israel was given to the Israelis after WWII by Churchill. Before then it was a part of the Ottoman Empire and the Palestinians and Israelites lived there in unrest, but together. Churchill changed all of this, for reasons resulting from WWII (look up your history if you don't know all of this.) The Palestinians were displaced, which is a long story, but the Gaza Strip trouble is a result of this. My friend has told me this story herself and I have verified it through research. Nothing is ever black and white. There is always a cause for an effect, and an effect from a cause. I would never pull a Rev. Fallwell and blame the attack on America on Americans. What we have to keep in mind is that America is viewed as being a terrorist nation to others. I cannot support violence against anyone, but as I said earlier, nothing is ever black and white. We didn't deserve what happened. The attack and the violence can never be excused or reasoned away. I pray for the victims of this cowardly attack, their families, and the brave men and women who risked and gave their lives to save others. I also ask you all to pray for our leaders in this time of great distress.

[mlaursen]

Hello everyone. Let me introduce myself. My name is Mireille and I have posted on this forum in the past, fairly recently. I am the person who wrote the thread that Deb cut and pasted here.

I meant no insult to anyone. I am NOT anti-Israeli. On the contrary. I have no discrimination towards these people. I was merely trying to state some facts that ARE well known, unfortunately just not to Americans. I am fortunate enough to have family in the mid-East who does keep me informed by sending me newpapers. The Gov't, nor the media, hightlight these happenings, but none the less, it is true.

We as Americans, must arm ourselves with knowledge. Knowledge IS power, and it is up to us to educate ourselves. I thank Deb for posting my thread, and thank her for having the courage to do so. I am an American-Arab of Christian faith. I am deeply saddened by this horrible attack that has come to our soil. I in no way meant any disrespect to anyone. And, no, I do not think we deserved this. NO ONE deserves such horror and tragedy. However, I do understand the reasons behind this terrible act, as wrong as it was.

I feel that if the US does in fact want to involve itself in the politics in the mid-East, then it should be accountable for what it's support causes. I have no problem that the US supports Israel, I just resent that the things we support that country with is being used to murder innocent people. And yes, those people are retalitating. Can you blame them??? And they will never stop...I promise you this. Why??? Because they are fighting for their lives. And they are willing to die for the lives of their people. And they will continue to do so. They are fighting for freedom. Isn't that what we fight for as well?

Whether or not I personally like Palastinians, I can not ignore the fact what these people are enduring everyday of their lives. We, Amercians, are furious and horrified about what happened on September 11th. Now try to imagine this happening all around you, everyday. And try to imagine your family starving because some soldiers came and uprooted your trees from which you try and make a living. Try to imagine the home you built being blown to bits and you are left to roam the streets, open to any attack. Try to imagine losing your husband, and watching your children starve?

Now where is the compassion for these people? Does compassion only arise when it hits our land? If so, and if some feel that we should not have to "save" anyone...so be it. Then by the same token, we should remove ourselves from the picture entirely and stop supporting Israel OR give the Palestinians the same as we provide Israel with. Let this battle either be fought between the two parties (where it should be), or force the UN to do it's job and arbitrarily lay down the law. Is that not what we did in Bosnia? Why not here? I'll tell you why not...because our political support has been bought.

I for one would LOVE nothing more than to see this end. I have a personal stake here. Part of my family lives in Jordan, which is right next door. I'm terrified for them. I could lose my father, step mom, sister, and 2 brothers. Over what??? Is this not what we all fear? Is this not what we are outraged about right now?

Please do not ask me to leave this country, because I won't, as one person noted earlier. I AM an American, and I always will be. I believe in what we stand for...FREEDOM. I love my country. I also know that this freedom must be protected and that innocent lives will be taken.

If our gov't doesn't make the right choices now, we may end up feeling the impact for many years to come. I'm terrified that my, yours, and everyones interests are not being taken into consideration. I want to live, and I want my family to live, without fear.

Please people, educate yourselves with the knowledge that is out there and we as a people must stand up and force our gov't to do what is in OUR best interest...not their own personal political agendas. "We the people"...remember that...fight for it...this is YOUR country. We do have the power, if only we would reliquish it...

Here is a link that was emailed to me the other day...there are facts there I did not know, but after researching, I found it ALL to be true. The info is out there...search for it.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/2001_0912.html

Respectfully,
Mireille

[NettaV]

I just wanted to add to this by saying that I do think we should go after the terrorist responsible, however they parrished in the planes along with our fellow Americans. What can we do? Link them to Osama Bin Ladin? OK, then what can we find HIM can we get just him and his followers? I don't know, I hope so because think about the lives we take by bombing Afghanistan. I don't know if it's the only way, that is confusing to many me included. I do think about the mothers and fathers and children the innocent people who will die when we attack their country. We are a much stronger country then them we will annilate them, is it neccessary, maybe? I am not trying to offer the answers, because I don't have any. I just wish we could have a big boxing ring for the leaders of each country to get into when they want to wage war against the other. That way no innocent people would have to die. Sounds stupid I know, but it's just a thought when all thoughts are wrong.

Love and Peace to you all my family
Netta

[frankles]

O.K. since this started I have spent hours researching on the mid-east and trying hard to understand it. All I know is that there are terrified people living in those countries and they are completely helpless from all the madness around them, I truly hope we don't "bomb" the h*ll out of Afganasthan like I hear so many people wishing for, because that would only make us terrorists for killing innocent people, no country has declared war upon us, just one man, and if we proceed to kill thousands of "the innocent people" we will then be considered murderers. I am so sick of it all, why does religion have to destroy human kindness, ok i started crying, bye.

Love, Peace and Freedom