The Diet Soda Debate

[DisplacedAussie]

I asked this question of FireplaceNut in another thread but someone asked me to start a new thread on the topic.

So what have been people's experiences in either keeping diet soda in their diet or giving it up? There was a time when that was all the liquid intake I would get in a day but thanks to the phen "dry mouth" I now drink about 100oz of water a day but I still enjoy my diet soda.

I'm interested in everyone's experience and opinion on it.

[Kristien]

I still drink diet soda. I attempt to buy the caffeine free but don't always hold true to it and now I have had to force myself to drink water so I kinda trade off 64 oz of water for 1 can of diet coke : )

[Ross]

I drink a fair amount of diet soda. It has to be a LOT healthier than the sugared kind.

I am not familiar with any studies that PROVE noncaffeinated diet soda is unhealthy. Although it seems that some sodas are not so good for the teeth (study)...

[bratface]

Thanks for starting the thread, DA! I drink quite a bit of diet pepsi... several a day . (FYI - also drink A LOT of water.) I've been pretty successful at losing weight... as long as I count my calories. But I've heard a lot about successful dieters who cut out even diet soda and I know there have been studies that say...

- it still rots your teeth
- artificial sweeteners could be bad for you
- artificial sweeteners still cause an insulin response and make us crave more food
- caffeine is bad, yadda, yadda
- sodium is high

Okay, so studies have said those things and of course some of them are just a fact, but I'd really like to hear what people's actual experiences have been... why do you think cutting out the diet soda has helped you in your weight loss? Please share details!

I LOOOOOVE my diet pepsi and could possibly cut back on it (CANNOT IMAGINE cutting it out completely), but still want to make an informed decision about my drinking it while dieting.

[wanna b slimmer]

Here is my 2 cents:

I drink diet coke once in a while, I will admit. But that is for ME! I do not buy it for my daughters - Absolutely NOT!!! I used to, they drank soda like any normal kid would . . until my daughter who is now 11 was diagnosed with Osteoporosis at 9 years old. The doctor told us that soda is a contributing factor in the disease. Now they get Crystal Light, Milk, Teas and water.

[redridinghood1]

I never drank any soda till I started seeing diet 7up with SPLENDA last year and I drink it every day. As far as I know splenda and equal aren't bad for you as far as tests showing they may cause cancer or something. I forget what aspartame is, the brand name....but I don't think it's good for you at all. Maybe someone can refresh my memory. My friend recently cautioned me, saying that splenda can cause depression. Don't know where she heard that. I should probably at least check into it but I just wrote it off at the time. Don't mess w/my diet 7up =) The only artificial sweeteners I use are splenda & equal. And there's only 45mg of sodium in the can of diet I'm drinking now.

[lmt033167]

In March I cut out all soda's and carbonated beverages for abdominal surgery I was going to have.

The doctor I went to gave me info on carbonated drinks, but I dont have it any longer - so I am going on my waning memory....

Bloating, indegstion, stomach irritation and erosion were some of the problems I remember these drinks causing patients.

I thought what the heck, try a process of elimination and see what is causing my stomach problems. I really thought it was going to be coffee, but it wasn't <thankfully>

It took about a month - 6 weeks for me to notice a difference. I have had only a couple of stomach upsets since that time, before I was taking Prilosec daily

Ive always drank alot of water, so that's never been a problem. I brew my own tea - and sometimes use Sweet n Low, plus I still have my coffee daily.

[Ross]

Whoops - left out:

But I am planning to start migrating over to Crystal Light. Their Raspberry Ice is phenomenal (but cheaper in the generic version)...

[Ross]

"- artificial sweeteners could be bad for you"

"aspartame....but I don't think it's good for you at all... My friend recently cautioned me, saying that splenda can cause depression."

There is little to no evidence of problems with major artificial sweeteners. Aspartame (nutrasweet) is the msot heavily tested additive in hysteria, and nothing was ever found. There IS a lot of fear, hysteria and BELIEF that it is bad, but BELIEF and TRUTH are not the same thing!!!! Consider what SUGAR can definitely does to you. It contributes to weight gain, it is empty calories, it is bad for your teeth, and likely links to some systemic problems like diabetes...

[bratface]

Ross - don't spill that Raspberry Ice on the carpet... it's a pain in the @$$ to get out! I'm a bit clutzy and spill all my drinks at one point or another so this is a big factor for me.

You're right about the sugar thing...

[redridinghood1]

Saccharine, Sweet 'n Low and Cancer (and pregnancy, and obesity - from bella**********)

Saccharine is an artifical sweetener that has been around for over 100 years, since 1879. Saccharine is 300 times sweeter than sugar. It was banned as early as 1911, but the bans were lifted during the sugar rationing of WWI.

Nowadays, saccharine is best known in the pink packet form of Sweet 'N Low.

The FDA began researching saccharine in the 70s, to ensure it really WAS safe. A series of studies were done and saccharine was found to cause bladder cancers. Some felt it was impurities in the saccharine, and not the saccharine itself, that caused the trouble, so nothing was done. However, in 1977, Canadians proved conclusively that it WAS the saccharine itself causing the cancer. As a result, the FDA required that any saccharine products carry a warning label about cancer. The actual warning reads:

"Use of this product may be hazardous to your health. This product contains saccharin, which has been determined to cause cancer in laboratory animals."

Further research was then done on saccharine, because the FDA wished to ban saccharine outright but the food companies fought this (successfully). The National Cancer Institute ran studies in the next 2 years and found that saccharine was indeed connected with bladder cancer. People who drank only 2 cans or more a day of diet soda had an increased risk.

Studies show that the average teenager drinks over 2 cans of soda a day. One in 10 teenage boys drink EIGHT servings of soda a day. The average American drinks over a gallon of soda each week. With more people turning to diet sodas to control obesity, these levels can cause serious problems.

Pregnant mothers are especially cautioned to stay away from saccharine, because even small usage of saccharine could overwhelm the developing fetus' defenses and cause damage to the developing bladder area.

Congress continues to keep prologing the "ban moratorium", that is, refusing to allow the FDA to ban saccharine because it is so popular in products. Saccharine is cheap and stable, so diet food makers find it perfect for use in sodas, candies, and many other products. This commercial interest has outweighed the proven cancer risks since 1977, and shows no sign of letting up.

My recommendation is, if you MUST have sweet foods, to consume products with Splenda in it, and stay away from saccharine. Even better, wean yourself off the sweet tooth and enjoy water, iced tea and wine for drinking, and natural foods for eating. There's no reason to go with ANY artificial sweetener, and the less sweets you crave, the less likely you'll end up with health problems from ANY form of sweetener - natural or unnatural.

[redridinghood1]

they bleeped out the url of the source

[northstar]

I was wondering it splenda is bad for kids as well. one of my friends swears and Scientificaly (sp) proven to be bad. I have n oidea where she got the facts.
I give my son some splenda drinks ocasionally and I just wonder now.
Shel

[redridinghood1]

I'll be darned. I googled 'diet soda weight loss' and found intersting stuff. People who drink a lot of diet soda tend to gain weight, this study said for two reasons: 1 -they are still eating bad food. and 2 -the sweetness that gives your body no calories could make it crave more calories. I also found that if the drink has caffiene it could dehydrate you, which could lead to headaches or constipation.

[LZ]

...the old saying goes everything in moderation. Of course, if we were good at that we wouldn't be on the phen website, hmmm?

[lmt033167]

What I find ironic about most testing and scientific studies is they do these tests on lab animals

This product contains saccharin, which has been determined to cause cancer in laboratory animals

I understand that they have to do testing on something to find results, but how can they equate a lab animal to a human? And yes, some testing is done on humans.

Since I started seriously losing weight, I have read and done so much research.

Sometimes it's confusing as heck with contradictions of one thing being good today, but not tomorrow and so forth. I'm still shaking my head over research and reports about muscle and fat weighing the same...

Take examples of athletes who have heart attacks for no reason, celebrities who get cancer, who smoke or don't, or strokes etc.

How many of these people do we think follow a bad diet and lifestye to where enviroment makes these things happen.

Is it our environment - what we eat, drink, breathe - that causes these problems or is it genetically predisposed from our ancestors?

[Jessica6602]

I agree LZ with moderation it is fine. I drink diet coke once inawhile and couldn't imagine giving it up completely. I have heard that caffeine does take away from phen but not sure if thats true.

~Jessica~

[Cindy6869]

I love diet root beer. It is about the only one I like. The only draw back is root beer is extremely high in sodium and some mornings I wake up feeling bloated if I drank more than a couple the day before. I also drink lots of water thanks to dry mouth all the time.

[Tessykooz]

I'm sort of new to the phenn website, but I have a few cents to add...

I consume about 2 servings of Diet Pepsi a day (one bottle). I'm not sure where you are all getting that diet soda is high in sodium because Diet Pepsi only has 25mg (1% RDA) per serving. That means for the entire bottle I'm getting about 55mg. That is fairly low. The low sodium soup I had for lunch has more.

I will agree that people who drink diet soda tend to munch more, and according to my dietician, that is one of the "tricks" the marketers use to get you to buy it. They don't market no calories, no sugar, and no fat because it's good for you, they market it because you feel like you don't have to give up the twinkies and chips.

Personally, I feel that as long as I'm drinking 64+ ounces of water a day (which I do) a diet soda or two won't hurt. Additionally, I am not sure about the danger level of artificial sweetners, but I'm sure they are no more toxic than the pesticides they put in our food, and the drugs we take willingly (smoking causes cancer, drinking causes liver disease, not working out can lean to heart disease, psst! Phenn can be addictive, therefore dangerous).

[momoftwins]

I am firmly believe that artificial sweetners are bad for you. I stick with Stevia which is a natural sweetner thats good for you.

This is how I respond to this question: Maybe there is nothing wrong with them, Maybe there is. I think I would rather NOT use them then find out later then yep there are major problems with them. Our history has proven that studies don't often prove there is something wrong with them until 20 years down the road.
If we were all genetically disposed to certain diseases then you would look back and see that your grandmothers grandmother had breast cancer and her son had MS. BUT, if you look at back in time, never did anyone die from so many health issues as we do today, and that is increasing every moment. That can be explained by all the preservatives, additives and artificial sweetners that we have added to our foods over the years!

Did you know that Aspartame is banned in children's products in Europe?
This was in OCt-Coke, Pepsi banned in Indian state over harmful levels of aspartame, pesticides and other chemicals.

I would rather drink a regular coke or pepsi then a diet one, and when I do happen to have a soda that is what I will do, I would rather have the calories and the sugar then the artificial sweetners.

[Blippo]

I have found drinking diet soda makes me want to eat

[monalisa1964]

I just have to give my two cents:

Sodas and especially diet sodas increase the appetite. The only time that I drink a diet soda is on the weekend mixed in my Bacardi. Otherwise I stick with water and my morning coffee. Worked for me. Good luck everyone. Mona

[Ross]

But isn't that the point? If evidence doesn't support that the artificial sweeteners are particularly unhealthy, then it is just as likely that they will find stevia causes cancer or something.

"Natural" really has no meaning. There are lots of natural herbs and plants that are toxic or carcinogenic. Deadly nightshade comes to mind. Kava kava, etc. there are kinds of fish that will kill you if not prepped correctly.

One of the reasons I stick with studies, is that there is too much reliance on beliefs or taboos or other things. Smoking is unhealthy, because there is a lot of evidence that is so. A chemical is a chemical, whether it is aloe vera or aspartame. Things aren't automatically unhealthy if manmade, or healthy if "natural."

Originally posted by momoftwins:
I am firmly believe that artificial sweetners are bad for you. I stick with Stevia which is a natural sweetner thats good for you.

[ October 14, 2006, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Ross ]

[Ross]

*sigh* - EVERYTHING increases my appetite

I really don't think diet soda has affected my appetite, personally. For me, a pre-lunch diet soda kills a craving for me to head up to the company cafeteria to look at the pastry selections...

Originally posted by monalisa1964:
I just have to give my two cents:

Sodas and especially diet sodas increase the appetite. The only time that I drink a diet soda is on the weekend mixed in my Bacardi. Otherwise I stick with water and my morning coffee. Worked for me. Good luck everyone. Mona

[momoftwins]

Actually Stevia has been around for many more years then the other sweetners, and used by many for health benefits. Its only been introduced into the United states recently. Much research has been done on it as well. "To further illustrate the FDA's apparent double standards towards Stevia versus other artificial sweeteners, in 1991, the National Institutes of Health, a governmental cousin to the FDA, published a bibliography titled Adverse Effects of Aspartame which cites nearly 170 medical/health reasons to avoid aspartame like the plague." (http://www.moonbowmedia.com/health/stevia.htm)
Yes some natural things can kill you, but thats no reason to not primarily eat all natural foods. Heck, sugar is natural until we process the heck out of it, and its not safe.
Evidence DOES suggest artifical sweetners are bad for you and there is plenty of it(evidence) out there.
Within 4 years of beginning her consumption of Diet coke(she started drinking it soon after it came out in 1982), my mom started becoming sick. First she had a major gallbladder infection that put her in the hospital, 2 miscarriages after 2 otherwise healthy births, a hysterectomy, then diagnosised with hypothyroidism. She was diagnosised with Lupus about 8 years ago. She and her doctor believe her problems started when she started drinking diet coke. She was a healthy child and teenager and none of these problems came about until she was close to her 30's. I know some think its a farfetched idea but many out there feel the same about artifical sweetners.

[Ross]

I wasn't meaning to get into an argumement on this.

I have serious problems with a site that supports one sweetener (Stevia) knocking the safety of others. This automatically disqualifies them to me.

Aspartame is the most heavily researched food element in history (by the FDA), and the final result was that that the negative reports were not supported by scientific evidence. Most of the books and other things that negatively tout it are promoted sans true evidence. Conjecture, books and other things to the contrary must base on scientifically-accepted principles, not because they are popular or widely-quoted. This is how rumours and disinformation are promoted.

The site you listed did not list the NIH, and the
the FDA does not "suppress" evidence. In fact, a study of 500,000 people looking at the link between aspartame and cancers found nothing:
http://www.cancer.gov/newscenter/pre...AspartameQandA

Further, this is from the National Cancer Institute: "Before approving these sweeteners, the FDA reviewed more than 100 safety studies that were conducted on each sweetener, including studies to assess cancer risk. The results of these studies showed no evidence that these sweeteners cause cancer or pose any other threat to human health. " This is at http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/f...ial-sweeteners

Originally posted by momoftwins:
Actually Stevia has been around for many more years then the other sweetners, and used by many for health benefits. Its only been introduced into the United states recently. Much research has been done on it as well. "To further illustrate the FDA's apparent double standards towards Stevia versus other artificial sweeteners, in 1991, the National Institutes of Health, a governmental cousin to the FDA, published a bibliography titled Adverse Effects of Aspartame which cites nearly 170 medical/health reasons to avoid aspartame like the plague." (http://www.moonbowmedia.com/health/stevia.htm)
Yes some natural things can kill you, but thats no reason to not primarily eat all natural foods. Heck, sugar is natural until we process the heck out of it, and its not safe.
Evidence DOES suggest artifical sweetners are bad for you and there is plenty of it(evidence) out there.
Within 4 years of beginning her consumption of Diet coke(she started drinking it soon after it came out in 1982), my mom started becoming sick. First she had a major gallbladder infection that put her in the hospital, 2 miscarriages after 2 otherwise healthy births, a hysterectomy, then diagnosised with hypothyroidism. She was diagnosised with Lupus about 8 years ago. She and her doctor believe her problems started when she started drinking diet coke. She was a healthy child and teenager and none of these problems came about until she was close to her 30's. I know some think its a farfetched idea but many out there feel the same about artifical sweetners.

[redridinghood1]

I think anyone concerned for their health should do their own research and decide for themselves. The NCI is a governmental agency, just like the FDA, and definately related to the FDA, so in my opinion they aren't the best source for 'complete' truth, just like a site that may advocate one sweetener and trash all others. As for the FDA not supressing evidence, just look into the Vioxx fiasco. I just read an article about it that is nauseating. It IS possible that billions of dollars can overshadow the best interests of the public.

[Ross]

I will be the first to agree that the government is not my favorite, nor is it particular efficient with money. But I have just seen too many stories and other things about "government coverups" on things with little evidence there is a cover up.

The older I get, the less credence I place in "I heard this" or "I read that."

For example, the aspartame causes bladder cancer has been discredited, but it still bounces around as if still factual.

I certainly agree that people should do their own research. I wish more people had your attitude.

[momoftwins]

Sorry, didn't think I was argueing, just stating my view just like you. I must be bad at it or something because someone always thinks I am argueing... I am sorry but I really am just stating my view. I am not even upset over any of this.

I will say this....A scientist once told me father and I that one formula they use to give rats cancer for the studies he does was aspartame and sodium nitrate. One of the foods our kids seem to eat in abundance is hotdogs which has a good bit of Sodium nitrate in it. He said it worked rather efficently in giving rats cancer. So no the FDA might not suppress evidence as you say(sorry I can't actually believe government agencies tell us everything they find. Not enough evidence to support, does not mean there was no evidence, and by what standards did they determine not enough?and which 100 safety studies did they decide to view to determine what is safe) but since the evidence was based on aspartame use only why would they tell us that aspartame plus other chemicals may cause harm.
If there were no problem with aspartame we would not see some countries beginning to be successful in banning aspartame products. They wouldn't waste their time with this if the evidence was not there.

"The diet food industry and the F.D.A. are fond of saying that aspartame is "the most studied product in history" with an outstanding safety record. In fact however virtually all of the studies in the medical literature attesting to its safety were funded by the industry, whereas independently funded studies, now numbering close to 100, identify one or more problems."
(http://www.dorway.com/report_children.html)

"The new million-dollar study by Dr. Morando Soffritti and co-workers found a dramatic increase in malignant lymphomas and leukemias in female rats consuming even low doses of aspartame-doses known to be consumed by millions of children, pregnant women and others. Their carefully done study concluded that most likely it was the formaldehyde breakdown product from the aspartame that was causing the cancers, which confirms what Trocho and co-workers had found earlier. Formaldehyde is known to be a powerful toxin and carcinogen, even in low concentrations."
same source as above

"There are sufficient studies on the effect of aspartame on the developing fetus to draw serious concern about the safety of this product. For example, it has been shown that aspartame in the dose accepted as safe by the FDA (50 mg/kg/day) can produce phenylalanine levels in a large number of women and their babies during pregnancy-large enough to produce abnormal development of the baby's brain. This is because phenylalanine interferes with the normal migration and connections of the developing brain. In my estimation, pregnant women should never consume foods containing aspartame at any level, for the reasons I have discussed. The aspartic acid, phenylalanine and methanol are all known to produce abnormal development of a baby's brain." same source

[Mommy02]

I personally don't believe everything the FDA tells you is true, so you have to do your own research, an your experiences. I used to drink alot of diet pepsi and used feel funny and kinda did an experiment, where I would drink some and then I would not, and found out it was the diet pepsi! So I decided it was better to drink the pop with sugar, and I cut back! Now I drink diet coke/diet 7-UP with Splenda or diet rite with splenda which the diet rite has no sodium and I only drink 1-2 cans per day! As for Steviam it is safe, because my liquid vitamin contains it and I know people who have used it for years! Hope this helps in the topic!

[mni5]

My husband is really into body building, and he reads all the mags out there. He insists that diet soda is a diaretic, and that body builders consume it heavily before a competition, to get rid of excess water weight. that coupled with all the other diaretics they take is why a 30 year old will look like he's 55 at a competition.

[sc628]

I haven't read all the post, so I am usure if I am repeating myself here, but I feel very strongly about this issue. Ok, diet soda or anything that has aspartame in it is very bad for your health. There was a study done and it showed that bottles of soda where sitting in a warehouse waiting to be shipped out and it was very hot. While sitting in this hot warehouse the diet soda had a chemical breakdown to formaldehyde!! Can you imagine drinking this crap. Bad very bad things to your health. They have also related asptame to altizimers and parkinsons disease. Not only that there was a study done that showed that diet soday actually makes you gain weight b/c this is a side effect from aspartme. Your better off drinking the real thing. Sorry about the spelling. I find it disturbing that the FDA will immediately approve this sort of chemical made in a lab but they took 7 yrs to get Stevia on the shelves of our grocery stores. Stevia is a natural sweetner that is from a plant and is very good for you. If you are gonna drink something drink tea or water. If you have to have a coke your better off drinking the real thing as a treat every once in while IMOP.
sc

[redridinghood1]

Hi, I've read about the dangers of heated aspartame in so many places I'd be inclined to believe it. This is what I've found: "'Free methanol' is created from aspartame when it is heated to 86F. Free methanol is absorbed much faster in the body. For example, Jello containing aspartame, is heated up and the methanol becomes a 'free methanol'. When the Jello is ingested, it is absorbed at a considerably faster rate than if it was not heated. An EPA assessment proves that Methanol "is considered a cumulative poison due to the low rate of excretion once it is absorbed. In the body, methanol is oxidized to formaldehyde and formic acid; both of these metabolites are toxic." Toxic formic acid is used to strip epoxy and urethane coatings. Imagine what it can do to your soft tissues." Aspartame is used in foods like jello that have already been heated, and in foods we heat at home when we prepare them. We all have to decide for ourselves & do our own research.

[ermatrude2]

I guess everyone is going to believe what they want to, but I'm just saying, if you take a look at some urban legend reference sites, you'll find that the major health organizations for lupus and MS and the American Society for Science and Health have issued statements debunking the aspartame hysteria. (If you have an e-mail about it from Nancy Markle, it's a hoax that has been travelling around the internet for ten years.)

Does aspartame produce methanol? Yes. But trace amounts of methanol are found in most fruits and vegetables. A glass of tomato juice has four times the amount of methanol as a can of diet soda. IT IS HARMLESS at this level. You'd have to ingest like 20 cans a day for several years to even start seeing any problems with it.

If you're happy drinking diet soda, then do so. If you notice you feel better when you don't drink it, then don't. I don't think it's any more complicated than that.

As an aside, I remember seeing a comedian joking that his doctor told him if he stopped eating potato chips, he'd live five years longer. The comedian replied that to him, potato chips were worth five years of his life! I feel the same way about Diet Dr. Pepper.

[bratface]

Ooooooh, ermatrude2 you are my frick'n hero!!!!!!! The only thing I saw in these posts that made me even think twice was that methanol thing. Wooohooooo!